Original link: https://www.latepost.com/news/dj_detail?id=1159
In July 2020, on the eve of the launch of Xiaopeng Motors, He Xiaopeng went to Dongguan and took a 10-meter circle in the aircraft of Zhao Deli, the founder of Huitian Technology.
At that time, Huitian had only 16 people and rented several offices in a general aviation airport in the suburbs of Dongguan. The office was upstairs and the hangar was downstairs. The surrounding 10 kilometers is an overgrown field with airspace for legal test flights.
Zhao Deli said that He Xiaopeng wanted to “do some flying things” at the time, but he hadn’t figured out what to do. Wang Xin, the founder of Kuai Broadcasting, introduced them to each other. On his first visit, He Xiaopeng was very interested when he saw a two-person aircraft with 8 propellers parked in the hangar. Zhao Deli asked him: Fly first or talk first? He Xiaopeng said, fly first. Zhao Deli then carried him and flew into the air first.
From the beginning to the end, Zhao Deli said that He Xiaopeng only cares about two things. The first is the product – he has experienced it and can fly. The second is the team. Huitian’s team background is not dazzling, but since the first flight in June 2018, Zhao Deli has insisted on flying by himself.
“Maybe there were 200 people in China who did this, and they all fell to their death. You were the only one alive, and I found them.” He Xiaopeng said to Zhao Deli. He invested in Huitian Technology shortly after his test ride.
In the past five years, flying cars have regained the attention of capital, with airlines, car companies and tech billionaires participating. For example, Joby invested by Intel Capital, Toyota and Uber, Lilium, a German company that Tencent invested in two consecutive rounds, and Terrafugia acquired by Geely in 2017.
Compared with the best in his peers, Zhao Deli’s Huitian is not outstanding. But He Xiaopeng wants to invest in and hold a startup company to deploy flying cars – just like his investment in Xiaopeng Motors in 2014, there are not many investment targets to choose from.
At that time, there were only two companies making manned aircraft in China: EHang Intelligence, which was listed on Nasdaq in 2019, and Huitian Technology, which was listed by Zhao Deli. Both companies started out as model aircraft, and they have stepped from drones to low-altitude manned aircraft.
Huitian is more wild and wild. Hunan native Zhao Deli is often called “Minke” (folk science enthusiast). He dropped out of high school before finishing high school. He went to Dongguan to work hard at the age of 20. He worked as a security guard, a real estate agent, and sold fruit. In 2009, he started selling model airplanes. He first worked as a sales agent, and then developed and produced it himself. In 2013, Zhao Deli established Huitian, and the company name at that time was still “Dongguan Huitian Toy Model Co., Ltd.”.
In the drone battle, the last reaper is DJI, which is an aerial camera. What Zhao Deli is doing is manipulating complex niche categories with high barriers to entry and a small market. His business went from bad to worse, he sold his house and went into debt.
Although financially distressed, Zhao Deli’s exploration of flight has become more and more in-depth. He is a “player” and makes drones because he loves to play drones. Not only played drones, but also learned delta wings and helicopters. He felt that these two things were expensive and difficult to learn, the venue was far away, and the noise was loud. “Such a product can be sold, why do I build an electric one that can be driven in 5 minutes, tell it to go and it will take you wherever it goes, why no one wants such a product?” Zhao Deli said.
Zhao Deli began to develop low-altitude manned aircraft. First made the motor, started to develop the flight control in 2014, and formed a frame machine for test flight in 2016. In those two years, Zhao Deli said that he seemed to be walking in a tunnel and could not see a little light, “I don’t know whether it is an abyss or a bright avenue ahead.”
By 2016, Zhao Deli had only one employee left. He paid the other party a small salary, “(just) able to eat like this.” He and his only employee had hardly any social interaction for 2 years, doing experiments in the hangar every day. Take the aircraft out to fly, take it back for repair if it is broken, and then take it out and drop it after repairing it. There were propeller blades scattered all over the grass.
After more than 1,500 trials and 40 or 50 crashes, finally, in June 2018, Zhao Deli flew his first-generation prototype into the sky.
At that time, Huitian’s test site was still a wild field surrounded by walls. Zhao Deli rose to a height of 8 meters and saw the scenery outside the fence for the first time. Passers-by curiously took pictures of him with their mobile phones. The prototype was in the open air, and the wind was in direct contact with his body. “You don’t feel that way when you take a civil airliner.”
Deciding to go up and fly by yourself is not easy. In the early days of Huitian’s weight-bearing test, he used a sandbag with a weight similar to that of Zhao Deli. But after a real person sits on it, the center of gravity will change, and there are many uncertainties in the environment. The cockpit of the first-generation prototype was not closed, and Zhao Deli sat in the center surrounded by high-speed rotating propellers. Once an accident occurs, the consequences are unimaginable. “Others may just lose money in starting a business, and I may lose my life.” Zhao Deli said.
After Huitian, there are also flying car companies that do manned tests, but the founders did not test them in the early stage. Zhao Deli believes that making flying cars is his personal hobby, and the products are also designed by him, and he also has the responsibility to rush ahead.
The first test flight landed steadily. Since then, Zhao Deli has flown countless times, but not every time he is so lucky. He had two or three accidents. In the early days, I didn’t fly high, and I didn’t pay attention to my body when I fell. First, check if the plane was broken.
The most serious one, when he landed to a height of 2 or 3 meters, the motor on one side of the aircraft suddenly stopped, and the whole machine rolled over in weightlessness. His toe was hit by the propeller, shattered and some bones were never even found. The doctor made him stay in the hospital for 40 days, and Zhao Deli only stayed for 1 week, and was discharged after signing a waiver agreement.
He takes video recordings of every test flight. He showed He Xiaopeng the video of the accident. He believes that the founder’s personal test is an important reason for obtaining He Xiaopeng’s investment. “As for the form behind, a dozen people can’t come up with much commercial logic.”
Before obtaining this investment, Huitian’s capital chain was almost broken. Huitian’s early financing came from some people who found Zhao Deli from the Internet. After his successful test flight in 2018, he was interviewed by BBC, CNN, NHK and other domestic and foreign media, and variety shows also invited him to perform. Zhao Deli became a grassroots star, while increasing exposure to Huitian, while earning appearance fees to support the team. Some people found him from all over the world and gave him his first angel investment.
In 2019, Huitian’s funds are still abundant. Zhao Deli contacted some investors again before the end of the year, and verbally reached an investment intention. But the next year, the epidemic came, and investors expressed that their funds were tightened and they would not do it for the time being. Zhao Deli was unable to pay his salary, so he asked the old shareholders to collect a sum of money for emergency.
He took the money and developed a two-person version of the aircraft, the one he took He Xiaopeng on.
In mid-2020, after He Xiaopeng came to Dongguan for a test ride, the legal affairs quickly followed up. At the Beijing Auto Show that year, the official announcement of “Huitian” became “Xpeng Huitian”, and the aircraft was also dragged to the exhibition.
Zhao Deli moved from Dongguan to Guangzhou with his 16 employees, and worked at the headquarters of Xiaopeng Motors for a period of time. Xiaopeng’s HR was transferred to assist Huitian in recruiting. While recruiting, Zhao Deli led the newly recruited team to re-develop a new generation of closed-cockpit, self-driving aircraft X2.
X2 has not considered commercialization. Zhao Deli said that the original intention of making this product is to polish the team. If you must set a scene, it is to fly from the city to the suburbs to solve the problem of traffic congestion. Or sell it to scenic spots for tourism. The former is currently subject to policy restrictions, while the latter is not in great demand.
So far, Huitian has made many generations of products. Although the shapes are different, the technical principles are generally similar. They are all battery-powered, vertical take-off and landing aircraft (eVTOL). This is also the mainstream technology direction of the industry. But after He Xiaopeng invested in it, he came up with a new idea: to make a “flying car” that can both drive on the road and fly.
The scenario He Xiaopeng imagined is: You can usually drive in the city, and occasionally fly to the suburbs. It’s like driving an off-road vehicle and going off-road with three or five friends on weekends. He thinks the market is bigger.
This technical route is extremely controversial. Although the concept of “flying car” was born in the 1920s, it did refer to a flying car. But the flying car companies that have become popular in recent years are generally doing vertical take-off and landing vehicles (eVTOL). The difference between it and the helicopter is that it adopts the distributed electric propulsion system (DEP) commonly used in UAVs, which has higher cruise efficiency and can achieve autonomous flight.
NASA in the United States began to promote “urban air traffic” in 2016, proposing to build a safe and efficient air traffic system in densely populated areas, which also pushed eVTOL to the capital. And there are very few companies that are currently researching this direction for driving and flying cars. Xiaopeng Huitian has become an “outlier” in the eyes of its peers.
“From my point of view, I definitely want to make Feifei very good and extreme. But there is no market for pure Feifei. Who should I sell it to?” Zhao Deli said. He believes that flying cars are more in demand than flying vehicles and are easier to land.
The team began to seriously analyze the technical feasibility of the driving and flying car, and finally concluded that the difficulties can be overcome and mass production can be achieved before 2024.
It’s not easy. Many product design principles for automobiles and aircraft are contradictory. For example, the car is required to be strong enough, and a crash test must be done before leaving the factory. The plane does not need to consider collision, but it needs to be as light as possible to fly.
The policy is also unclear. “Flying cars” must be listed on the product catalog of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology before they can be legally sold, and to fly, they also need to obtain an airworthiness certificate issued by the Civil Aviation Administration. Zhao Deli said that Xiaopeng Huitian is actively communicating with the Civil Aviation Administration, “trying to find a good path.”
In October 2021, Xpeng Huitian completed a $500 million Series A financing, and many of the investors are shareholders of Xpeng Motors. Zhao Deli said that they are all interested in cars that can drive and fly, and believe that the market size will be larger than that of vertical take-off and landing aircraft.
Their concern is mainly the professionalism of the team, and there are few talents from the aviation industry in the early days. At present, Huitian has more than 700 people. Zhao Deli said that the proportion of personnel with aviation background accounts for 20%.
The management of these senior technical talents has brought new challenges to Zhao Deli. “I did everything myself at first. Now, with these big names, I’m more about providing services. Once the technical direction is set, they will rush down, and I will help them recruit people when they are lacking.”
In November last year, Zhao Deli brought Huitian’s team from Xiaopeng Motors to Guangzhou University Town, which is a few kilometers away, where Xiaopeng Motors set sail. The new office building is located along the Pearl River. Zhao Deli had an itchy hand once, so he applied for temporary airspace and flew around the Pearl River.
On Haigull Island in the eastern suburbs of Guangzhou, Xiaopeng Huitian has also built a 21,000-square-meter flight base, with 135 square kilometers of airspace for legal test flights, and has trained its own test pilots.
Zhao Deli often felt relieved to see them hovering at a low altitude with their aircraft. “I was the only one who flew at first, but now they can all fly.”
The following is an exclusive interview with Zhao Deli by “Late Auto”:
Folk Science Enthusiast
Late Auto: Some people in the industry call you “Minke” (folk science enthusiast), what do you think of this label?
Zhao Deli: I don’t shy away from this label, I think it’s pretty good. Because after all, I’m not like them all from a major, I didn’t go to college, and I didn’t graduate from high school, so I pursued my hobbies. They assigned me a “Minke”, or a peasant entrepreneur, and I accepted it. I think this label will still have a certain social value, because I want more people who have not received professional studies and higher education to have dreams as well. I made it, and could be a role model for them to follow their dreams.
Minke may be more courageous, especially for this kind of huge innovation. If you are a professional, you will be very careful. After the calculation, you feel that this thing is too risky and unfeasible, so you don’t dare to do it.
I’m not going to count these things, I’m just using my experience and how many failures I should be able to get it done. There is a risk, but I dare to take this risk. Minke dares to think and act, and has the courage. In the past, cars and airplanes were all made by civil sciences, and later professional classes entered the field to make them more professional.
Late Auto: Huitian made drones in the early days, and then made flying cars. What do you think of the drone battle? The market was finally harvested by DJI.
Zhao Deli: I think DJI has seized a good potential, and with the help of capital, it has produced several products that are very popular in the market. In the early days, we made drones, and we made competitive flying machines. We flew with VR glasses. The threshold was a bit high and it was difficult to learn. DJI makes an aerial camera, and it is easy to get started with the help of GPS, so the market demand is relatively large.
Late Auto: Why did you make a crossing machine with a higher threshold, but you didn’t do a good job of controlling it?
Zhao Deli: This is my personal reason, I think crossing is more challenging. I am a gamer, and for those who play, the experience is better. But it is very difficult. It’s like playing with a SLR camera. Professionals play with cameras, and they have a lot of fun, but ordinary people can’t tune it. We do this kind of professional stuff, it’s fun, but few people understand it, so the market is small.
Late Auto: Why the leap from drones to manned vehicles?
Zhao Deli: In 2013, I sold drones fairly well, with a certain amount of cash flow. I saw someone playing with delta wings and helicopters and went to learn. These two things are difficult to learn, expensive, the venue is far away, and it is not easy to fly every time. At that time, I thought, could I make an electric one, which is relatively cheap, takes off and lands vertically, can fly anytime, anywhere, and is very light, just like the black cat sheriff rides a flying motorcycle.
Once you have an idea, talk to the team about it. The team objected, but I still insisted on doing it. In the end, the product I flew up in 2018 was exactly the same as what I wanted to do. One button can take off, cruise, and land, and Xiaobai can fly.
Late Auto: When did you feel the most hopeless during the development of the aircraft?
Zhao Deli: From 2016 to 2018, the plane has not yet taken off, and it is doing research and development. I have no money, I still owe a lot of debt, and I have no income for two years. I often worry about paying rent, eating, and buying spare parts.
You are in the tunnel, you can’t see a bit of light, and you don’t know whether it is an abyss or a bright road ahead. Every day is very painful to move forward, but never thought of giving up. Others don’t look back if they don’t hit the south wall, but if I hit the south wall, I’m going to smash through the wall, and there is no way out.
I feel that in this universe, the entire earth is a drop in the ocean, and this is the only time we come to this world to do what we like. What I do is my dream since I was a child, and I have always insisted on doing it, although the process is very hard.
Late Auto: What’s your inner drive to keep doing it?
Zhao Deli: At that time, I wanted to make this thing fly, make the product, sell it, and serve mankind. This is my driving force. Because you didn’t have a product at that time, and people didn’t believe you, I just wanted to prove that I was right, and this was the right direction.
Late Auto: Why must such a product be made? You say big sales, you can make money by doing a lot of things.
Zhao Deli: Making money is not the only purpose. I want to make a groundbreaking product through this kind of technological innovation, instead of fighting in the stock market, such as opening a restaurant, you sell 10 yuan and I will sell it for 5 yuan. I want to open up a new thing to solve some social problems, such as traffic jams and emergency rescue. This is what we need. We have seen many flying cars in sci-fi films. Although it was human imagination in the early days, we can realize it through technology now. Why not do it?
Late Auto: Before you guys, EHang released a manned aircraft at CES 2016. Did you know they were doing it at that time?
Zhao Deli: We started working in 2013. He released a model in 2016. I saw it, and I was very excited. I thought it was very good. At that time, EHang had financing, and the power of capital was pushing this matter. They’ve done a great job driving the boom in the eVTOL industry.
Maybe the guy who did this fell to his death.
only you alive
Late Auto: Huitian’s first manned flight was carried out by yourself. How did you think about it at the time?
Zhao Deli: In the early days, other people were just doing things with me. There was no need to work hard for a job. I like this thing, I made this thing with my own hands, I can’t drop my colleague because of it, that’s not good. So I take the lead myself, I know where its security boundaries are, and I go up and test it myself.
When the first manned, I actually made up my mind for a long time. I remember that in March and April, the flying motorcycle was flying very steadily and well, and the load limit test was completed. But I’m going to fly in the middle, which is a huge challenge because of the high-speed spinning propellers all around. A crash is a fatal accident. But then I thought, if I don’t go up, what’s the value in it? My original intention is to be able to fly, if I don’t go up, it will always be just an idea.
I made up my mind for two or three months. In June, I decided to fly. My mother still has two or three days to celebrate her birthday. I went back and said a lot of nice things. Then I went back to Guangdong and flew up. It didn’t disappoint me, and then I successfully landed.
Late Auto: Are there any problems with so many tests?
Zhao Deli: There have been two or three problems. The most serious is being hit by the propeller to the toe, comminuted fracture, in the hospital for surgery. There is still a toe that can’t be bent, and some bones have not been found. I had to lie in the hospital for at least 40 days, and I was forcibly discharged after about a week, and signed a waiver agreement.
There are many uncertainties in early testing, environmental factors, and equipment reliability factors.
Late Auto: Have you told He Xiaopeng about this?
Zhao Deli: I have shown him all the videos. He said that it is not easy to do this. There may be 200 people in China who did this, and they all fell to their death. Only you were found alive by me.
He Xiaopeng invested in us, the first is that we are really serious about doing this. After doing it for so many years, we have accumulated a certain amount of technology. The most important thing is that every time he sees the founder do it himself, that person must be a lunatic.
Late Auto: What stage was Huitian in when He Xiaopeng invested?
Zhao Deli: There were some angel investors at that time. We made T1. I participated in Jackie Chan’s film festival, China’s Got Talent, and won the Chinese Army’s individual flight champion. The capital was looking for me. I had a lot of discussions with them, and basically decided to vote after the Chinese New Year. As a result, the epidemic came, and they were all tightening.
In March and April of 2020, the company ran out of money in the account, and it is estimated that it will not be able to last in June. I asked the original shareholders to collect more than 1 million emergency funds.
I thought at the time that these funds cannot be used to pay salaries. It would be meaningless if the investors’ money was divided. It would be better if we make a product, break the boat, and pay everyone back after the money has been raised. This persisted for three or four months, and a two-person version (aircraft) was made. Afterwards, there are investors, government investment leaders and celebrities who come to experience it, and I can take them to fly. Sitting on it alone and letting you fly, you’ll feel terrified. But I’m flying with you on it, you won’t be afraid.
After the duo version was made, Hunan Satellite TV had a variety show looking for me and asked me to take Angelababy, Brother Shui, and Xiao Yang in the strongest brain, and they all flew around.
Late Auto: What did they say after the flight?
Zhao Deli: Angelababy was very happy and jumped down, saying that it was very cool and great.
Late Auto: You have participated in many variety shows, which is something that many CEOs of startups will not do or have the opportunity to do. What did this experience bring to you?
Zhao Deli: The CEOs of startup companies, their projects are easy to get financing, but I don’t have a team, I don’t have any background, I can’t raise money, I want to find some partners, they don’t know my words, they will never be able to find them arrive. So I want to increase my exposure through variety shows and let more partners find me. Second, at that time, it was very miserable. The house was sold, and there was no money. Every time I appeared on a variety show, I could get a little appearance fee and let the team survive.
Usually in the city
Occasionally fly to the suburbs
Late Auto: After He Xiaopeng came in, how did you cooperate with him? He is the chairman, you are the founder, the president, and there is no CEO?
Zhao Deli: I am currently taking on the responsibilities of CEO. Xiaopeng and I often discuss some strategic issues together. Xiaopeng is also very concerned about this. He will report to our business every week, mainly to control the big ones. direction. The specific implementation of these details is up to me.
Our R&D team often interacts with him a lot. Later, when discussing the product configuration, he thought of making a car that can fly and drive.
Late Auto: The mainstream technical community is more recognizing the route of eVTOL (vertical take-off and landing aircraft). Foreign companies that make such flying and drivable flying cars are not doing well. Everyone thinks it’s impossible, it’s just a concept. What do you think of the doubts from the outside world?
Zhao Deli: From my point of view, I definitely want to do flying well and extremely well. But there is no market for pure flying, who do you sell to? Xiaopeng is thinking in terms of business logic, to make a car, and the price is not too expensive, millions. I usually drive to and from get off work in the city, and occasionally fly to the suburbs. This is his business logic. At first I couldn’t figure it out, but after thinking about it, I can really sell it.
Foreign flying cars are questioned because they need to roll and take off. It is a fixed wing. You have to find a professional airport, which greatly limits the application scenarios.
What we have developed is a vertical take-off and landing flying car. Just imagine, we drive to the edge of the Huangpu River, and we can fly from one side of the river to the other without going through tunnels or bridges. When I go to Hainan Island, I can fly across the sea without taking a ferry. What a convenient product.
Figure: Xiaopeng Huitian plans to mass-produce a flying car that can drive and fly in 2024
Late Auto: Is this technically possible?
Zhao Deli: It is not easy to achieve. We started discussing this configuration in March last year, and it didn’t really pass the valve point until December. It was confirmed that the previous discussions were OK, and we found solutions to all difficulties. We felt it was feasible.
Late Auto: How many meters do you fly?
Zhao Deli: I first explored flying a little higher, and later I explored flying a little lower. Now, considering the psychological tolerance of users, it may be ultra-low-altitude flying.
Our flying car has a lot of redundant designs for protection and safety, such as seat belts, airbags, and buffers. After all kinds of protection are completed, it will not cause fatal injury to people if it falls from 10 meters or 8 meters.
Late Auto: People are worried about more than just being fatal, and people don’t want to get hurt.
Zhao Deli: We are the product side, and we definitely hope to minimize the damage. If there is a very low probability of falling, no one will die. This kind of crash has a very low probability of failure at first. After electrification, it has a simpler structure and higher reliability than a helicopter.
Late Auto: There is a debate in the flying car industry. Conservatives are closer to the aviation industry in their research and development ideas and will do rigorous ground tests. Radicals are closer to drones. Planes and drones fell, and the cost was different, so the development process was also different. Which one do you think flying cars should be closer to?
Zhao Deli: 90% of our R&D process is done in accordance with the R&D process of automobiles. We also recruited a lot of aviation experts, and we respect the flight process.
Our product is essentially a car, but with an additional function that can fly. In order to be able to fly, some changes have to be made, and the process of car research and development may be lengthened a bit, giving some time to fly, and then follow the relevant airworthiness regulations.
Late Auto: You are the first to eat crabs. What problems do you need to communicate with the government?
Zhao Deli: Since we can drive on the road, I don’t think it’s a big problem to get the license plate of the car. Then we can fly in the sky, we need to get the airworthiness certificate.
The country now has special conditions for this vertical take-off and landing electric aircraft. In the past, it was impossible for you to obtain an airworthiness certificate. Now that you have it, we will follow the national standards.
Late Auto: Can a car that can fly and run be listed in the catalogue of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology and sold legally?
Zhao Deli: I don’t dare to make a ticket now. We often say that the market wants to promote policies, and we look at this with an optimistic attitude.
We can’t wait for everything to come out before doing it. At that time, it will not be called innovation. Your chance of success will be lower, and you will definitely have the head. You must be building something, providing some mature parameters, and the country will set standards for you. This is how great entrepreneurs set standards.
Late Auto: How is the time for mass production in 2024 determined?
Zhao Deli: According to the mass production car of Xiaopeng Motors, we will produce one in two years, and we will produce one flying car in almost three years. We have planned all the time nodes from R&D to mass production, and mass production will be possible in 2024.
Late Auto: Huitian has recruited many senior talents. How to make good use of them, is there any management challenge for you?
Zhao Deli: There are challenges. But I think that when changing roles, I have to do everything myself at first. Now, with these big names, I am more about doing good service, because each of them must be better than me in every sector, so I Will ask their needs, where they can’t figure out and need my help. In terms of technology, we are discussing, the direction is set, they are rushing down, and I will help them recruit people when they are lacking. Funding has come in a round.
Late Auto: Many of Xpeng’s shareholders in this round of financing, what was the process like?
Zhao Deli: We started financing after X2 came out. Many investors who have invested in Xiaopeng Motors in the early days are very interested in us. They all come to chat on Huitian. Everyone thinks that being able to drive and fly on the road is the biggest highlight. Because it is purely flying, it is unrealistic to sell it to individuals, and it cannot be used. There is no place to fly to an organization that sells it to B.
Late Auto: Do they have any concerns?
Zhao Deli: Very few. At first, there were relatively few people who worried about our aviation system. Later, many experts came to our aviation system, and now they account for 20% of the total number of people.
This article is reprinted from: https://www.latepost.com/news/dj_detail?id=1159
This site is for inclusion only, and the copyright belongs to the original author.