I chatted with my PhD supervisor, Chang Hee Jung, about his changes and thoughts after he got tenure at Columbia University. We discussed some relatively imaginary topics, such as the meaning of life, and we also discussed more down-to-earth topics, such as the discussion of the operation mode of industry research institutes. Changxi is sabbatical this year and is now building a new group in Tencent North America.
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https://boards.greenhouse.io/tencent/jobs/5801070002
Let interested students contact Changxi directly: [email protected]
Guest: Changxi Zheng
Tencent America / Columbia University
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0:00 Program Preview
2:10 What has changed since Changxi took Tenure
8:16 Meaning of Tenure. Should Tenure be cancelled?
13:29 Some thoughts on living in the moment
15:00 What are the general options for professor sabbatical
18:20 What is the difference between setting up a lab at a university and a company
30:53 Does Tencent’s internal horse racing mechanism influence research?
43:13 Changxi’s advertisement in Tencent’s Lab
47:21 Preview of the next issue: from Southern University of Science and Technology to thinking about undergraduate education
https://boards.greenhouse.io/tencent/jobs/5801070002
Let interested students contact Changxi directly: [email protected]
Producer/Host/Subtitle: Li Ding Zeyu
Text finishing: Guo Yu
Next program preview
In the next episode, Jiaming and I discuss his experience of studying at the university that was just established ten years ago at the Southern University of Science and Technology. Using our respective undergraduate experiences as a starting point, we extended our discussion of some of our thoughts on undergraduate education.
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Text version full text
Li Ding: Welcome to the new chat room of Li Ding. Today we have Zheng Changxi, a professor at Columbia University. He is now establishing a research group of his own at Tencent. Hello, Changxi.
Changxi: Hello everyone, hello Li Ding.
Li Ding: As many Graphics listeners, you must know the background of Changxi, but here are other generals who do CS or not, Changxi, can you briefly introduce who you are?
Changxi: Okay, let me briefly introduce that I used to be your advisor. Yes, I am Li Ding’s Ph.D. advisor, and besides that I have been a professor at Columbia University, mainly on computer graphics. In addition to this, our group also does a lot of other things, including human-computer interaction and large-scale scientific computing. In the past year or two, we have been watching a lot of nano photonics, which is the problem of nano-optics. All in all, it is still mainly academic research.
Li Ding: Changxi was my mentor during my PhD, when I was also your first batch of students.
Changxi: The first student, not the first batch of students.
Li Ding: The first student, okay. At that time, I remember when I was studying for my PhD, of course, you were equivalent to an assistant professor. After I graduated, you took tenure a year or two after graduation. I have never experienced your tenured experience. This is the experience of being a professor. From your personal opinion, you took it. How did you feel after tenure?
Changxi: This is an interesting question, because many people have asked me this question. To be honest, I was the school that sent me an email at the time, and he said that you passed the tenure, it was official, and there was no feeling at all. In fact, I don’t think there is any change in life. You should lead students with students. It is to be a professor, because you have to go to the federal government, for example, to befriend the federal government, which is equivalent to asking for money. You should ask for money, right? You have to take classes when you are supposed to take classes. In other words, in terms of lifestyle, there is no difference. . But looking back, I think there may be a little change in the mentality, frankly, I think the biggest change, I think, has given me a chance to start rethinking what I have done in the past few years. I started saying why am I doing what I’m doing, you know what I mean, it used to be because of the tenure, or something else, as far as school we just started, which means you always want to be in a sense, always want to prove yourself , In a sense, I hope to publish more papers, right, including I also know that Li Ding and many other classmates put some pressure on him at that time. But after you send so many papers, you start to think about the meaning of this thing, because although it says that most of the papers are actually not very meaningful, because this research is also like this, but you always think about it The meaning of research is that I spend ten years or even the next ten or twenty years, what is the meaning of research, and I may start to think more about this philosophical level. Another point is that maybe after thinking about it, you will find that when you were young, including before and after, and also told many classmates and students, that is to say, when you are young, you must be very concerned about other people’s thoughts, and this thing is also Yes, many times we say you don’t care what others think, you should be yourself, but the truth is that you have to care what others think. For example, if you want to apply for a PhD when you are young, you have to care about what your advisor thinks of you, and then if you want to find a job, you have to care about your employer, right? You’re going to be promoted after you work, right, you have to care what your boss thinks. Before you take tenure in academia, in reality you have to care about things like the research community’s evaluation of your work. I think to a certain extent, this kind of social nature leads us to leave under the others’ expectation at least to a certain extent. But after taking the tenure, you start to think slowly, and then you will find that because you have a certain job security and say you don’t have to worry, for example, if the school hires you, if you don’t commit such illegal things, You are starting to slowly return to your original heart, that is, you start to think a lot about how to satisfy myself, the satisfaction process in my heart. I think this may be a bigger change in mentality. I feel more and more that in the first part of your life, you have to care about other people’s ideas to a certain extent, but you gradually become middle-aged, and even after establishing to a certain extent, I think people will eventually return the heart. I think this may be one of the biggest personal feelings after taking tenure and starting to think about these things.
Li Ding: It’s interesting to say this to you, because I happen to have two points that I want to add. One is that Georgia Tech has recently announced some reforms to the tenure system. In fact, I don’t follow the specific details, because it is not very The official document is released. But there were a lot of classmates discussing in the WeChat group in my chat room before. They also discussed fear and desire. They said that these are two basic needs of being a human being. In fact, you said to pay attention to what others think. You, including saying what other people think about you are actually part of fear, and after taking the tenure, you can make you less concerned about fear, on the contrary, you can pay more attention to the part of desire. So this is also one of the reasons why many people support the retention of the tenure system. I have some thoughts on this issue myself, but I think that in terms of long-term, the tenure system must be a lot in the United States. This kind of western country helps science As you said, after you take the tenure, you don’t have to think about other people’s opinions, you can focus on one thing you want to do.
Changxi: I think any decision of this kind of policy will ultimately depend on people. The answer like a panacea is that it depends, or it depends on different people. Some people may lie flat, right, whatever. Some people may still want to pursue, a sense of self-satisfaction, I think it depends on something, but in general, at least the original intention of tenure is still meaningful, he allows you to do a lot Maybe something more long-term, bolder, more audacious, but a lot depends on the person. I think it may be because some people are actually the same in the end, that is, why do you live such a philosophical topic, whether you want to pursue the impact on human beings or society, or pursue the comfort of this self-life, different people have different views, maybe I think instead of discussing whether we want to cancel tenure or not, it is better to discuss how we evaluate tenure, that is, how to decide to give a person tenure, I think this kind of thing is better than you say that I want tenure, and I want to To keep the tenure system or not to keep the tenure system, I think it is more important.
Li Ding: Yes, then you have to mention this meaning just now. This also goes back to the second comment I want to add, that is, you said that you are also rethinking what your purpose is, you have finished thinking about it. After that, what is your one tentative conclusion?
Changxi: Of course, this thing belongs to everyone. First of all, everyone’s philosophy is different from everyone’s. As far as I think, there is no right or wrong or something more noble or less noble. My personal opinion is that a person consists of three parts, one is your past experience, the other is your future vision, and the other is what you experience at the moment, but most people think of you , looking to the future through past experiences. I now realize a lot, including myself, and I have observed and observed that many people, whether in life or in the process of research, may be too entangled in what happened in the past. Then worry too much about what will happen in the future and forget about the present. So I feel that the biggest thing is to experience, maybe we should live at the moment more, live in the moment, to experience everything in life, to experience every project we do with our students in life, just this process. I think it may be more inclined now, inclined towards this, and don’t care too much about whether I must send a siggraph, to be honest, this siggraph and Li Ding have also posted so many, you also know that this thing is all It’s a recipe, you’re right. After you have posted so much, you can send a paper like whoever said, you can always turn it into a siggraph with any idea. Basically, so I think this process may be more and more for me. important.
Li Ding: Okay, in fact, I heard a little abstract. I don’t have a wife, because you have some specific examples. For example, you should mention the example about Siggraph at the end, but is there any other point that is more concrete?
Changxi: For example, we are doing a research project, right? Many times, including myself, right? I admit, including I have seen a lot of people in this circle, they are very concerned about how I give his idea to spin, and after spin Can be turned into a piece of Siggraph paper. Many times I care about what the reviewer will think, so sometimes I will take a look at the results. In fact, this mentality is actually thinking about what will happen to my results. Everything is driven by results. I now realize more and more that it is actually unnecessary. In the end, as long as you have such a bar yourself, then you think you are looking for a solution and looking for a paper, because you often have a problem in your research project, and then you want to look for the problem of understand , and then looking for the answer to the question, so I think to understand the process of this question, and then decide step by step how to do the experiment, right, how to do the theoretical derivation, I think these things should be more focused. Things may indeed be said It’s a bit dangling, but ultimately it’s a change in mindset. I think I remember that I was still there some time ago. Of course, it may be a bit far. Some time ago, I discussed with my friends and said, you see, many Indian people do better in American companies, and then everyone is wondering why, each There are all kinds of theories, and then I have a theory of my own. I found that many of their Indian cultures have a set of such philosophical things. I went to study a little, and I heard a so-called sage from India say a sentence. In other words, you should think with your body, not your brain. At first I didn’t understand what this meant, but I gradually realized that the so-called thinking with the body actually means that I should experience this process more. For example, in the process of doing research, I encountered the process of problem solving, rather than entangled in what the result should look like. I’m probably leaning more towards that mindset now.
Li Ding: This is a bit interesting. I have never heard of this philosophical point of view. It is very interesting. Yes, we can talk about this topic here first. Then the next thing I want to talk about is, because now you are in Tencent, and the year before, you should be preparing this is where the sabbatical should go. What considerations do you have for the professor to go to the sabbatical, like yours at that time?
Changxi: First of all, I am now because of sabbatical. Maybe some viewers may not know this sabbatical. The meaning of sabbatical is that this should be an American university. I don’t seem to know if Europe has such a school, but at least the schools in East Asia in Southeast Asia don’t seem to have it. There is no such thing in Japan. Sabbatical means that you stay in the school for six or seven years, strictly speaking, after teaching twelve semesters, you can choose to leave the school for one year, allowing you to do whatever you want, such as working in a company, or Go to startup, right, or you can write a book at home or do nothing, and bring the baby. I am now at Tencent. In fact, strictly speaking, Tencent America is an American company, but it is owned by Tencent, which is just such a place. Then, when it comes to choice, in fact, the standard choices are actually similar. I think they may be similar to all professors, especially CS professors. There are only a few types. One is that you go to a company’s industry research lab. Or you go to start a startup yourself, or you go to a laboratory in a certain school or another school, go to a visit for a period of time, or just stay at home and write a book. That’s pretty much the choice, as far as I know. Of course, I also heard that some people go to Africa to teach, right? There are also people who do this kind of thing.
Li Ding: You said about four categories just now. Did you consider the four categories at that time? Or did you just consider some of them?
Changxi: Yes, I actually had quite a few choices at the time. The choices I mentioned just now may not have been seriously considered when writing a book, but I have considered all of these choices. But there are many factors, right? Including the epidemic, because the epidemic is coming, you can’t travel on a large scale. Even if you go to a certain place, most of the time everyone is working from home, and you can’t see each other. Various reasons, and finally because of various factors, the final decision was Tencent after comprehensive consideration.
Li Ding: What is Tencent doing now?
Changxi: Tencent is like this. Tencent opened a new laboratory in New York, and then it is this kind of research lab, but like all industry research labs, it has some visions that the company wants to achieve in the future. , There are some possible technical problems and technical exploration tasks under this vision, and they hope to explore these new technologies through a laboratory. So I’m building from scratch there now.
Li Ding: Basically starting from scratch, which is equivalent to how many years ago you were ten years ago. I remember that you joined Columbia University almost ten years ago, and you built up the Columbia lab with you ten years ago. Now the company builds your lab from scratch. Is there any difference between the two?
Changxi: First of all, this is also the place where people from Tencent came to me, and I thought it was more interesting to talk about it. Because this process is equivalent to the process of building from scratch, I have gone through it once before, and there must be a lot of pits in this, right? Li Ding must also know that there may be many pits, and there may be relatively successful places to do it, and there are also many places to do it. Looking back, it may be possible to do better. Take this with you. This kind of experience and a kind of mentality of wanting to try again and maybe do better, I think this is more interesting. If you want to talk about the difference between the lab in the company and the lab in the school, of course, there are several aspects to this. Maybe firstly, I think that the lab in the school is responsible for the task of cultivating people and cultivating students. Right, Li Ding has done so well in Adobe from a fresh graduate at that time. I think this is also the case. A very gratifying process. But there may be more people recruited by your leverage in the company, more leverage their expertise, their collective creativity, such a process. Of course, you also have such a training process in the company, and there is such a process for everyone to career development, and to make everyone become so mature. But I prefer the company’s lab, I prefer to think of it as a machine, I have a vision that says what the machine should look like, and then I go to find the screws and install the machine in such a process. The school may really be more like an old hen with a bunch of chicks, and then the process of growing the chicks up. This is one aspect. On the other hand, research in school. Of course, I think many of you may talk about problems a lot. Research in school is still more far-reaching. You may care more about whether this matter is intellectually meaningful or not. , how much new knowledge or new understanding it can bring, maybe it doesn’t really care if my thing has any effect in the short term. For example, the sound thing we made many years ago, a typical example is that thing, we use computer, Li Ding also started to do a lot of this kind of work, let you simulate the sound generation thing, looking back, You will find that it is true, we want to know if this is possible, so many times, for example, your calculation amount is relatively large, you need to use various GPUs to calculate it, not special How to say, it’s not that you can’t land on a mobile phone in the short term. However, research in the company is relatively short-sighted. You must be able to see at least a clear path to the product, so the company may be closer to the product, so when you build up the lab, you will Think more about how we interact with the product team, how we interact, and how we transfer to this. Specifically, in terms of personnel configuration, you must not only want people who are very far reaching and visionary, but you also need some of them that can, for example, optimize the code. The GPU implementation is particularly efficient, which may be biased towards engineering. People who are different may be able to match up, but it can’t be said to be diversified, it may be that the focus is not the same. This is how I feel so far.
Li Ding: The first thing you just said is about the school is from. Your analogy is the process of cultivating from a chick to an adult. The company may be like a machine, a part of the original machine, which happened to be Tencent before. Xifeng in North America said something similar. He said that schools are a place to teach and educate people, and a company may be a place to do things, and then I feel like you two have a little bit of the same point of view. I haven’t thought about it thoroughly, because I feel that the school actually has both the company and the school. I just say that maybe the school’s focus is to let you grow, and the company’s focus may ask you to let you do things. After all, the company invited you to come. I bought your time and asked you to help the company do things. But I feel that thinking of him like this, I don’t know if it will affect the actual growth of employees. Although everyone knows, and I know, that we are only part of a machine, when I really say it, I don’t know if it will be to the employees. For example, you can see that I am actually in Adobe. I am only a very small part. With me or without me, this Adobe will continue to sell what it should sell. But when I said it, I felt that there was still a little bit of it. . .
Changxi: What is it? How do you feel about this thing? It should be said that I think it may still be a process of self-recognition. I actually feel that I am in the industry now, such as Tencent. Frankly speaking, I am just a screw. I am just a screw in a machine as big as Tencent, but maybe my screw is responsible for a small part of a big machine. In their words, Shree (Nayar) said that Nobody is indispensable, nobody owe you anything, right. Just when you realize that, you realize that on the one hand we have ambitions for everyone, you want to do something impactful. On the other hand, for example, if I die today, it may be the person in my closest family who will be sad. Other people, right, may attend my memorial service, and then they should do it the next day. What are you doing, the world works as it should. I think when you realize the insignificance of every individual life, I think right, this thing is a fact. Like what I just said is actually a fact, it just makes me feel a little sad to say it. Let’s talk about one that may be more actionable. I just mentioned that everyone is actually a screw, but it may be said that they are responsible for different things in the machine, and then when choosing a machine as a screw, it is how to choose, right? My choice of principle is very simple. Who you go with is more important than where you are going to what you do. With myself, I think this can be communicated with the two of us before. You also mentioned what the people around you are like and who you work with. I think this may be useful to me. When I get back, just say it and enjoy This process, live at moment, enjoy the moment, the idea is the same. It’s just that my current situation is at Tencent, because I am building up from scratch, right, so I may have a bigger say in recruiting people. It’s a good thing in a sense that for me I can decide should, who you want to work with. Of course, this is only one aspect, that is, within the lab, on a larger level, you still have to work with the product team in the company, including my boss, the boss in the company, the boss in the school, the boss in the company, Company colleagues, you still have these people on a larger scale. But a big company like Tencent, including a big company like Google, including Adobe, must have a considerable number of people who have nothing to do with you, right? That is to say, the people who may be close to the team, are they for me, for example, are they open-minded, are they all rational, and try to discuss a problem without mixing emotions as much as possible? , I think everyone’s vision is similar, I think these things may be more important to me.
Li Ding: I understand, you just mentioned that there is no boss in the school, but there is a boss in the company. What kind of influence do you have on your daily work or your research?
Changxi: So far I think it’s okay, because in the company, although Tencent is right, although I have a boss, but he is far away, right? The sky is high and the emperor is far away. When I joined the company, I also discussed it with them, and said that as long as the big vision, the big vision is consistent with the vision of the boss or the senior management of the company, and how to operate it may have a relatively large degree of freedom. . The specific operation, such as individual project, what kind of project we do is basically decided by ourselves. So in this sense, it’s actually not very different from the school. It’s just that when you choose to do something, you choose to do a specific project. At this time, I may go to my boss or company first. The senior management breathed a sigh of relief first and looked at their feedback. Because not all projects, at least intellectually valuable development are above commercial, not commercial, but also necessarily valuable. So I am in the business value, including the business model, relatively speaking, I am sure that I do not understand that much, right? So I think this kind of communication with them, including learning from them, is also necessary in the company.
Li Ding: This is indeed the sky is high and the emperor is far away. If you have enough autonomy, it will indeed be more helpful for you to form a group. I saw that my producer added a question at the back, that is, as many of you may know, Tencent has a horse racing mechanism, many of which include games and other research groups, there will be Group A, Group B, and even Group C and Group D. , and choose the best one out. Like your research group in Tencent North America is doing the pioneering research you just said, will there be other similar groups doing the same kind of competition as you in the exploration of technology?
Changxi: For me, I may give you a little background about what we are doing, and then, on the premise of such a background, let’s talk about competition. In fact, what we want to do is at a high level. What we want to do on Tencent’s side is to say, at the beginning, vision said that in the future, the so-called visual computing, I may call it content creation, in terms of Tencent, the game may be right. Well, video, right, these things are used to consume everyone’s time as content. This thing is divided into two parts for you to see, whether it is the so-called calculation, right, that is, rendering, right, physical simulation, all kinds of special effects, sound effects, the other thing is interaction, interaction includes you and Computer interaction, right? Gesture recognition, and then all kinds of things, including your VR glasses. I think this is a very clear trend, which is computing and interaction. The two things will become more and more separate. What do you mean, your interaction will happen more and more on your local, on your wearable device, on your mobile device. In terms of computing, especially this kind of high-quality computing will occur more and more in the cloud, and the middle is through this wider and wider bandwidth network, such as 5G or 6G in the future. I think this trend is very obvious. If you look at cloud gaming, right? I think everyone is talking about it now, and then everyone doesn’t know what it is. The Metaverse is actually a routine, so what we have to do here The thing is to rethink some of the Graphics engines under such a framework. For example, when you are doing rendering, how do you do cloud based rendering, or hybrid rendering such as cloud client, including simulation, animation generation is the same, so our lab is exploring this aspect, which is more oriented towards future technology. So back to the question of competition you just said, first of all, as far as I know, there shouldn’t be too many groups within Tencent that are specifically focused on what we want to do, so it’s fine in that sense. But another aspect is about competition. I remember that when I was here with Li Ding, I also expressed this point of view. I think research is actually very similar to sport. It is competition with a sport. It is unavoidable, even if you are not within a company within a company organization, you have to face competition, right? Tencent also has to face competition with Adobe, right? It also has to face competition with, for example, Disney, I think this is in this sense. It’s a good thing to say. If you don’t have competition, you can’t inspire, inspire. So I don’t think I’m afraid of competition, and Li Ding also knew that when we were at Columbia, we scooped most of the time, and when there were few others, we scooped others, right, so it’s okay.
Li Ding: Actually, you just mentioned a similar relationship between research and sports. In fact, I forgot that we talked about this topic with me before, but I agree with this very much. It seems that every company is doing something very similar. research is the same. It is not that other companies are running fast, and our company is not running. Just because other companies have proved that they can do it quickly, we have to pay cash and see what can be applied to our company’s product framework. If we just say that we are completely dependent on other work, we actually do not understand the connotations behind it. based on this architecture is difficult. So even if other companies are doing it, your own company has to reimplement it, or you can explore it yourself, you have to do it.
Changxi: Many times I think a company does one thing, but you can actually divide it into two categories, one is the so-called strategic offensive project, and the other is the so-called strategic defensive project. So the strategic attack is that you want this company to continue to expand its business boundaries, so he wants to explore some new areas. The other so-called strategic defensive type is that other companies are doing it. If I don’t get on this ship, right? If this matter is taken off in the future, I will be pushed off the ship. In order not to be pushed off the boat, I have to maintain a certain amount of us before I lose money. This is the so-called strategic approach in my opinion. For example, when cloud gaming returns to cloud gaming, you will find this, right, for example, after Google did it, many companies are doing it, including Microsoft, and Nvidia, as far as I know, also has a small team It is doing it, and then domestic Tencent and NetEase are doing it. This thing you can say in a certain sense, they are doing strategic defense.
Li Ding: I understand. Then take a look, yes, there is another question I want to ask. When you started the show, you mentioned that now you are sabbatical in Tencent, which is equivalent to one year. Afterwards, do you plan to leave after one year, for example, at Tencent, or do you plan to continue doing it for a long time, because you have said a lot of these visions, including your formation. There was a topic we didn’t talk about just now, but what do you think about the current situation of the group you formed, that is, the group is expanding very quickly? Or is it more like a step-by-step basis? Because this will also affect how long you say you will be here, right?
Changxi: My current point of view is very simple, I will keep the group small until I can prove the value of this group. I won’t make the group very large until I can’t prove it, I can’t say it plainly, and there is no commercial output, because I think because you want this company to give it to you, just build such a lab, it’s a lab and it’s not profitable. Well, things are just throwing money into it, so what are you doing? From the perspective of directing the lab, on the one hand, I must consider the output. On the other hand, I think this may be very different from the school. I just forgot to do it, you have to consider the sustainability of the lab in the company, that is, how long it can last. You don’t want to say that you have hired a bunch of like-minded colleagues, right? There are many young people who put their career The initial stage was delivered to you, and then after two years, the company’s lab was closed, right? I think this is not a good thing for everyone, especially everyone in the lab. So this is something that I may think is different from the school, and it is also a relatively careful thing, sustainability. Sustainability From the perspective of senior manager, input-output ratio When your input-output ratio is high, divide the output by the input, and he will not turn it off. When the input divided by the output is relatively high, then he is very troublesome. So yes, I think about the size you just said, I think we will keep the size small until we can prove that our input-output ratio is very high. Of course this means that it might be a bit more picky, less aggressive, like some other companies do. Regarding your second question, when you say your future plans, I can only say who knows about the future, right?如果我发现我不是特别胜任这件事情的话，如果我发现我这个可能更适合这种学术界这种天马行空式的research，可能也就对吧，这就是个short-term 的一个experience，对我来讲或者一个short-term 的adventure。但如果就发现这个事儿还是值得，至少有希望我们看到他potentially takeoff 的这么一个希望存在的话，对后面有很多其他的这种可能的方案对吧。其中一个方案就最aggressive 的方案，就是说我离开学校离开学术界对吧，就直接在工业界。我personally 并不觉得做一个藤校的professor 是一个多么了不起的事情，personally 也觉得其实也就是只是一个job 而已，另外一个工作而已，我并不觉得说一个藤校的professor 就一定比工业界比如说一个manager 更高尚或者怎么样子。虽然我知道有很多尤其是Humanity 的一些professor 会真的会这么想，但这是这其中有可能就是离开学术界。另外一个可能比如说其他的professor，因为看到他们也有这样的arrangement，就是一半时间在学校，一半在工业界，对吧。像好多Vision 的老师都是这样的，这也是一个potential 的安排。当然这样的话也就是有很多trade-off，还要考虑到对你学生是不是真的负责，你多少时间在花在学生身上这一系列的一系列的东西。我personally 不是特别喜欢这种一半一半，想两边兼顾的这种方式，我personally 觉得这样很有可能就是你高变成高不成低不就的那种。
李丁：对你说的的确是了，我也感觉就是你说的aggressive 的情况和你说这种折中的情况我也都见过发生的，的确折中是比较难做好的，可能如果教授能力特别强，时间管理特别强，说不定可以做好。但是大部分的情况就是可能都是学生会比较就是惨一点点，因为得不到足够的这个mentoring 在PhD 期间。对，刚才你也聊到了很多你们lab 做的具体的一些事情，节目的最后你想打个广告招人吗？
Changxi：对这是肯定的。对我们现在叫啥，求贤若渴对吧。就是我们坦率说我们现在在这个lab 就刚刚开始阶段，现在可能才几个人，所以我们现在在使劲的activity 的招人。虽然像我刚刚说的可能相对来说比较picky 一点，标准会稍微苛刻一点，这只是我personal 的。我们personal 想把size，就是lab 大小keep 比较小的这么一个这个时候的策略。但是不管怎么样，我们首先各个方面的专就是researcher，我们都在actively 的招。所以各个方面几乎Graphic 是所有的方面，当然可能除了做fabrication 做3D 打印的确实是不太会考虑做。像渲染，尤其是实时渲染对吧，然后就是物理模拟，然后几何处理，甚至包括现在跟machine learning 比较接近的一些对吧，比如说像NeRF 这些东西，我们都是非常欢迎大家来申请的。回头我可以发个link 给你去，你可以贴到下面，除此之外我们也招实习生，而且实习生非常flexible 的，可能在这一点上，我觉得我们是在学习Adobe 的模式，全年都招实习生。如果是博士生来我们这边做实习之后，像Adobe 一样，都会有一些gift funding 给学校的老师，我觉得这一方面可能就是Adobe Research 对我们来讲更像是一个老师，我们想就在实习生这件事情上面，几乎是在学习Adobe 的模式。
李丁：既然你提到了这一点，我就要为我们的PhD 同学就问一个问题了，腾讯做完实习之后代码可以带回学校吗？还是腾讯的代码？
Changxi：Research project 我们是open source 的。
李丁：Okay，这点是跟Adobe 是一样的。
Changxi：那也是可以的，因为很多，或者可以的写到你的Thesis 里面，这是我们的。
李丁：因为并不是每个公司的这种特别是偏产品实习的这些大厂的话，会比较不能够把code 带回学校。
Changxi：可能我需要clarify 一下，research project 的research code 肯定是这样的。你包括可以在Github 上开源没问题，这样如果有一部分东西要进到产品里面，那是另外一回事是。欢迎大家所有具有各种各样方研究方向的同学，无论是你是现在在读的PhD 的同学想要来找实习的，还是已经毕业了之后的，想要找fulltime 工作的我们都欢迎。而且我们还多说一句了，除了同学Graphic 里面，我们也对这个HCI 这方面的同学也挺感兴趣的。也就是比如说偏一点点硬件的就是说这种sensing 传感器就是叫它传感器，这个叫感知，然后还有human device and action 这些方面我们也都感兴趣。
李丁：可以，到时候你发几个那种招聘的link 给我，都放在shownote 里面，大家想申请的可以直接申请。谢谢Changxi 今天来跟大家的分享。
Changxi：Okay，好的拜拜。
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