In this interview, developers from Nintendo and Smart Systems discuss the development process of the first game in the N64 “Paper Mario” series, and talk about its unique origami art that combines 2D and 3D with action elements ‘s groundbreaking combat system, and a unique take on the Mario universe. Originally published on the GSLA website dedicated to keeping interviews with Japanese print media developers.
Respondents:
Ryota Kawaide – Supervision (Intelligent System)
Hiroshi Sasano – Support (Nintendo)
Ryota Kawaide: I joined as a consultant when the Super Mario RPG team started development of this game.
Hiroshi Sasano: At the beginning of development, we decided that Paper Mario should not be a sequel to Super Mario RPG, but should exist independently-a new RPG with Mario as the protagonist. The style of Super Mario RPG kept a distance.
We spent a year and a half experimenting with various character ideas, and we also considered using the pre-rendering technology to refer to the art style of Super Mario RPG, but still felt that it would be more interesting if we could try something completely different this time. Some, in the form of paper Mario, are the result of experimentation.
Kawaide Ryota: Yes, we tried polygon modeling, but the effect was too similar to the “The Legend of Zelda” series of games on the N64 platform, so it was rejected. (laughs) We were using Silicon Valley graphics as development software, but we finally decided to bring in the old guys from the Super Nintendo era and use the development software of that era to create the graphics material for Paper Mario. (laugh)
Since our primary goal was to preserve the atmosphere and setting of the Mario universe, we decided to use only characters from the series’ orthodox works. Therefore, the supporting characters in Super Mario RPG did not appear. I think sticking to “mainstream” is the best way to make a Mario game. Also, heavy themes like “betrayal” are a little weird in the heartwarming world of Mario.
> Create a story<
Kawaide Ryota: As for the story of this work, it was actually determined in the early stage of development. So we put most of our energy into polishing the non-story-related content to make sure it’s more appealing to players. We could have combined the charm of Paper Mario with a big, tantalizing story, but instead of making a game that would get boring quickly, we wanted players to enjoy the gameplay itself. Most of the games on the market today are story-driven, but one of Nintendo’s principles is not to compete with other players in the same direction.
> Design combat system<
Sasano: At the end of the day, we didn’t want to make a game where you just need to keep pressing the A button to win, so we came up with the idea of classifying enemies according to their weaknesses (some with jumps, some with hammers) . In this way, we avoid the embarrassing situation that occurs in most RPGs – the player becomes too powerful in the late game, and the combat becomes tiresome.
Kawaide Ryota: Yes, half of the time when developing this game was spent on the combat system. There are two things that we pay particular attention to, the first is to ensure that the player does not go into a state of idleness for too long; the second is that the difficulty is not so high that the player is intimidated. We’ve created an enjoyable combat system that maintains a “pleasant” tension.
Hiroshi Sasano: Although there is “The Legend of Zelda” on the N64 platform, there is no pure RPG, which is also one of the development motivations of this work. Given the uniqueness of the N64 hardware, we knew we had to make sure that even younger players (first and second graders) could get through.
Ryota Kawaide: Yes. But the difficulty is that if the game is too simple, experienced RPG players will find it boring. Our solution is action commands. Even if you fail to seize the opportunity, you will not lose the battle, so this system has become a reward mechanism for players. As for old players who have been in the game for many years, motion commands can also make them fun.
Sasano Hirakuya: We try to avoid making players repeatedly level up, and set the difficulty to win with a little effort. Therefore, whether children or adults, this work will not make you feel pressure.
> Dialogue<
Sasano Hirakuya: The dialogue part really made us spend a lot of effort. Players these days are used to hearing voiceovers in games, but playing audio samples on the N64 was difficult, so we did get stuck for a while before we figured out that we could introduce multiple font effects into the text. For example, dialogue text jitters when an older person speaks, and suddenly becomes larger if a person is surprised. This approach doesn’t ruin the atmosphere of Mario’s world by adding dialogue voices, and I think the dialogue text effects also reinforce the comfort and warmth we’re looking for.
> Badge System<
Kawaide Ryota: The biggest reason for adding the badge system is that we don’t want Mario to use weapons. Also, we don’t want to introduce unnecessary “attributes” that appear in other RPGs. Somehow, talking about Mario’s “Agility” is a little off, isn’t it? (laugh)
Also, when people play RPGs, they always enjoy the feeling of entering a town and buying the strongest gear, then cleaning up before moving on to the next area. We talked about recreating that feeling in a Mario game, and the badge system is the result of that thought. Of course, it would be boring if players could equip all the badges, so we wanted to limit the badges you could use in some way, so we added a badge point system. After all, we want players to feel more and more satisfying as they level up.
Hiroshi Sasano: The customization system of badges is one of the highlights of this game. Each player can create their own Mario…not only interesting, but always different.
Kawaide Ryota: We want you to be active in the game all the time, so we hope that players can use the badge system to create unique Mario. We don’t want players to go into autopilot mode, head into town without a brain, buy props and equipment, and then rush to the next town.
Sasano Hirakuya: The badge is the part that shows the individuality. Some people on our team can even get through the game with the initial 10 health. (laugh)
Kawaide Ryota: Of course, they can do this because they thoroughly understand the law of the enemy’s behavior. If equipped with a “near death” or “lucky” type badge, entering a battle with the Kuba will trigger a dangerous state, and then only need to make good use of powerful bumps and props to win.
Also, there are some badges that we cut off. For example, one of the badges can put Mario into a “runaway” state, where you can’t give him orders, but his attack power will explode. For some reason, this badge makes him turn green when he goes berserk. The programmer who created this badge is a Luigi fan, and I guess his thinking is that it must be dangerous if Mario turns into Luigi. (laugh)
Sasano Hirakuya: The way we work is to first add all the ideas that come to our minds in the game, then cut off the ones that don’t fit, and so on.
Ryota Kawaide: The reason for adding attack sound effects to change badges is because we thought it would be boring if all badges were related to power. These sound-changing badges can give the battle system a whole new look.
> Final Thoughts<
Hirakuya Sasano: We put a lot of effort into the combat system, and we want players to enjoy it to the fullest, experimenting freely with various badges, and coming up with different ways to defeat the enemy.
Kawaide Ryota: Most players probably didn’t notice, but in the battle with the chestnut king, if you hit the chestnut tree with a hammer, a big chestnut will fall and deal a lot of damage to him. There are many settings like this in “Paper Mario” – if you pay attention to these small details, you can make the battle a lot easier – and I hope players will have fun in the process of finding them.
Also, I think this game shows a lot of my personal tastes and interests, but if there is a chance to go further… I really like the badge system and hope to continue working in this direction. In any case, now is not the time to talk about the sequel, and wait until players provide feedback and needs.
Hiroshi Sasano: You might not believe it, but Paper Mario took four years to develop. (laughs) I hope the next work can be completed in two years. If you keep the overall style the same and just tell a different story, you should be able to do it in two years. In any case, I think the development of the sequel still depends on the market reaction and player evaluation.
translate: @RED Rhyme
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